Discussion:
Carp
(too old to reply)
Jay C
2005-06-25 01:28:01 UTC
Permalink
I went fishing the other day and caught 2 bass and 9 carp. The bass were
too small to keep, so they went back in the water. The carp ranged in
size from about 2 pounds to one that was probably close to 10. Guess
where they ended up? On the bank, where they belong. The only good carp
is a dead carp. I've never thrown a carp back in the water, and I never
will.
http://www.texasfishingforum.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008041;p=1
The "Trash Fish Label" is a bit of mistaken Cause and Effect.
Back during the industrialization of America, natural water ways were
being diverted, dammed, drained, and polluted. This coupled with
freshwater commercial fishing lead to the not so surprising situation of
declining natural fish stocks. The US goverment was well aware of the
problem. After much research, they decided that one solution to the
problem was to import and stock Cyprinus Carpio - aka Carp.
There reasoning was that carp were hardy enought to survive the less
than ideal conditions men had created. Additionally, carp could produce
plenty of protein on very little sustenance. Finally, the large
immigrant communities were hungry for a taste of home.
So, the US government set about on one of the most successful stocking
programs in history. In the 1890's German fish were imported and stocked
as brood stock in ponds near Washington DC and MD. From there shipments
were made upon request to virtually every congressional district in the
USA. People asked, and the gov't provided.
Then a couple of things happened. Water quality due to pollution,
fertilizers, and altered water ways continued to decline. People began
to notice that in some cases the only survivors were carp. Instead of
admiring the carp's tenacity and mending our own ways, Americans began
blaming carp for the problem of declining native fish stocks. Not too
logical since carp were a response to the problem rather than the cause
of the problem.
A second event deepened the perception. The invention of refridgerated
shipping. Before this event, fish were mostly a local fresh food item.
After this invention, salt water species could be caught hundreds of
miles away and provided to the country's interior in an edible state.
Needless to say, the freshwater commercial fisheries took a huge hit as
diets turned from local fresh water fish like carp and buffalo to tasty
saltwater products like salmon, flounder, etc.
It was not long before a stigma was attached to carp. Being nearly the
sole survivor of man's abuse, they were blamed for displacing more
desireable species. It mattered not that the waters in question were
often incapable of now supporting the favored species.
Those who could not afford fancy fish shipped from the sea, would
continue to eat local fare like carp. It was not long before folks began
using carp consumption as yet another racial stereotype.
Politicians being quick to recognize a scapegoat, were more than happy
to decry the evil carp, especially since it helped avoid blame for
industrial pollution, agricultural run off, excessive irrigation,
channelization, etc. etc.
Without an advocate to defend her, the Queen of the Rivers (as noted by
Izaak Walton) came to be regarded as a scourge, a pest, a "TRASHFISH."
Once ingrained in the culture, such labels are hard to shed. I see it
continuing yet today...
A man and his son are enjoying a warm spring afternoon fishing worms for
bass or catfish or walleye or whatever. Suddenly, the little boy's pole
doubles over. For about 10 minutes all is joy. Dad smiling, Jr.
squealing with glee. Then a large golden flank roles near the surface
and a pair of fleshy orange lips poke above the water.
Father's face falls. F'ing carp. Too bad. It's so ugly. Junior now
doesn't know whether to be happy or sad about this, the grandest fish he
has ever caught. Taking his cues from dad, he spits on the fish and
curses it. Dad tells him to throw it in the bushes and they get back to
catching their intended, smaller fish. Lesson Learned.
Scroll forward a few years and Jr. signs on the a place like the TFF.
Carp are mention and Jr has a visceral negative reaction.
Such a scenario will not quickly change. However, there are an
increasing number who have discovered that all is not as it appears.
Join the fun, become a part of the "Carp Brigade."
--------------------
Brian "Carpaholic" Nordberg
I.Epstein
2005-06-25 15:31:52 UTC
Permalink
That's some reading comprehension you got there.
Post by Jay C
I went fishing the other day and caught 2 bass and 9 carp. The bass were
too small to keep, so they went back in the water. The carp ranged in
size from about 2 pounds to one that was probably close to 10. Guess
where they ended up? On the bank, where they belong. The only good carp
is a dead carp. I've never thrown a carp back in the water, and I never
will.
http://www.texasfishingforum.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008041;p=1
Post by Jay C
The "Trash Fish Label" is a bit of mistaken Cause and Effect.
Back during the industrialization of America, natural water ways were
being diverted, dammed, drained, and polluted. This coupled with
freshwater commercial fishing lead to the not so surprising situation of
declining natural fish stocks. The US goverment was well aware of the
problem. After much research, they decided that one solution to the
problem was to import and stock Cyprinus Carpio - aka Carp.
There reasoning was that carp were hardy enought to survive the less
than ideal conditions men had created. Additionally, carp could produce
plenty of protein on very little sustenance. Finally, the large
immigrant communities were hungry for a taste of home.
So, the US government set about on one of the most successful stocking
programs in history. In the 1890's German fish were imported and stocked
as brood stock in ponds near Washington DC and MD. From there shipments
were made upon request to virtually every congressional district in the
USA. People asked, and the gov't provided.
Then a couple of things happened. Water quality due to pollution,
fertilizers, and altered water ways continued to decline. People began
to notice that in some cases the only survivors were carp. Instead of
admiring the carp's tenacity and mending our own ways, Americans began
blaming carp for the problem of declining native fish stocks. Not too
logical since carp were a response to the problem rather than the cause
of the problem.
A second event deepened the perception. The invention of refridgerated
shipping. Before this event, fish were mostly a local fresh food item.
After this invention, salt water species could be caught hundreds of
miles away and provided to the country's interior in an edible state.
Needless to say, the freshwater commercial fisheries took a huge hit as
diets turned from local fresh water fish like carp and buffalo to tasty
saltwater products like salmon, flounder, etc.
It was not long before a stigma was attached to carp. Being nearly the
sole survivor of man's abuse, they were blamed for displacing more
desireable species. It mattered not that the waters in question were
often incapable of now supporting the favored species.
Those who could not afford fancy fish shipped from the sea, would
continue to eat local fare like carp. It was not long before folks began
using carp consumption as yet another racial stereotype.
Politicians being quick to recognize a scapegoat, were more than happy
to decry the evil carp, especially since it helped avoid blame for
industrial pollution, agricultural run off, excessive irrigation,
channelization, etc. etc.
Without an advocate to defend her, the Queen of the Rivers (as noted by
Izaak Walton) came to be regarded as a scourge, a pest, a "TRASHFISH."
Once ingrained in the culture, such labels are hard to shed. I see it
continuing yet today...
A man and his son are enjoying a warm spring afternoon fishing worms for
bass or catfish or walleye or whatever. Suddenly, the little boy's pole
doubles over. For about 10 minutes all is joy. Dad smiling, Jr.
squealing with glee. Then a large golden flank roles near the surface
and a pair of fleshy orange lips poke above the water.
Father's face falls. F'ing carp. Too bad. It's so ugly. Junior now
doesn't know whether to be happy or sad about this, the grandest fish he
has ever caught. Taking his cues from dad, he spits on the fish and
curses it. Dad tells him to throw it in the bushes and they get back to
catching their intended, smaller fish. Lesson Learned.
Scroll forward a few years and Jr. signs on the a place like the TFF.
Carp are mention and Jr has a visceral negative reaction.
Such a scenario will not quickly change. However, there are an
increasing number who have discovered that all is not as it appears.
Join the fun, become a part of the "Carp Brigade."
--------------------
Brian "Carpaholic" Nordberg
Bob La Londe
2005-06-25 15:54:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by I.Epstein
That's some reading comprehension you got there.
Instead of reviling the carp, lets restore the waterways, and the native
populations.

(Yes I know bass aren't native to Arizona, but trout are.)
--
Bob La Londe
http://www.YumaBassMan.com
I.Epstein
2005-06-25 17:42:15 UTC
Permalink
Exactly.
Post by Bob La Londe
Post by I.Epstein
That's some reading comprehension you got there.
Instead of reviling the carp, lets restore the waterways, and the native
populations.
(Yes I know bass aren't native to Arizona, but trout are.)
--
Bob La Londe
http://www.YumaBassMan.com
David H. Lipman
2005-06-25 20:37:42 UTC
Permalink
From: "Bob La Londe" <***@diycomponents.com>

|
Post by I.Epstein
That's some reading comprehension you got there.
| Instead of reviling the carp, lets restore the waterways, and the native
| populations.
|
| (Yes I know bass aren't native to Arizona, but trout are.)
|
| --
| Bob La Londe
| http://www.YumaBassMan.com
|

Some fish have been have been stocked in waters w/o detrimental effects. Example ate
American Shad and Striped Bass.

Striped Bass were taken off my beach here in NJ and brought to California and have had no
problems with competion with native species and are a good sport fish now on the Left Coast.

The American Shad was taken from NY's Hudson River and also brought to Califonia. They too
have had no problems with competion with native species and are a good sport fish now on the
Left Coast.

Other fish on the otherhand are a BIG problem in the US For example the Jumping Carp and
the Snakefish.
--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
Jeff
2005-06-26 05:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Other fish on the otherhand are a BIG problem in the US For example the
Jumping Carp and
Post by David H. Lipman
the Snakefish.
Snakeheads are not the big problem they are being made out to be. They have
been around in East Coast Rivers for well over 20 years now and going
against predictions have not forced out native species. They have had very
little impact. The press got ahold of the Snakehead story and blew it out of
proportion without noting they have been around for a long time.
David H. Lipman
2005-06-26 13:57:55 UTC
Permalink
From: "Jeff" <***@none.com>

|
| Other fish on the otherhand are a BIG problem in the US For example the
| Jumping Carp and
Post by David H. Lipman
the Snakefish.
| Snakeheads are not the big problem they are being made out to be. They have
| been around in East Coast Rivers for well over 20 years now and going
| against predictions have not forced out native species. They have had very
| little impact. The press got ahold of the Snakehead story and blew it out of
| proportion without noting they have been around for a long time.
|

Thatnks. I had incorrectly called the the "snakefish" rather than "Snakeheads".
--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
nobody
2005-07-21 01:55:59 UTC
Permalink
Yeah, why does everyone misunderstand the point of the original post?

So many waters are so far gone that the only fish that can thrive in
them anymore are carp. Carp aren't causing the damage, they are
*surviving* the damage. Learn how to fish for them now, because before
you know it, they're gonna be all that's left.

In my own home region, people keep speculating that the reason alewives
are not coming up the rivers from the ocean to spawn is that carp are
eating their eggs. It's not 150 years of garbage we poured into the
rivers that's killing the alewives, it's the carp. Sure.

My point is that the issue of carp seems to be the only time fishermen
(and women) get all 'ecological.' Fishermen should be fighting for
environmental protection every day. If you fish and you don't care
about the environment, you should be fishing for carp.

ps--where my wife's family comes from in Europe, carp are not native
(they're native to Asia) but I've caught carp and trout in the same
river there. Nobody's afraid that the trout fishery will be destroyed
by carp. But then, carp stocks are pretty low because think that
catch-and-release carp fishing is absolutely crazy. They love to eat
carp so much they have it for dinner on Christmas eve.
Post by David H. Lipman
|
Post by I.Epstein
That's some reading comprehension you got there.
| Instead of reviling the carp, lets restore the waterways, and the native
| populations.
|
| (Yes I know bass aren't native to Arizona, but trout are.)
|
| --
| Bob La Londe
| http://www.YumaBassMan.com
|
Some fish have been have been stocked in waters w/o detrimental effects. Example ate
American Shad and Striped Bass.
Striped Bass were taken off my beach here in NJ and brought to California and have had no
problems with competion with native species and are a good sport fish now on the Left Coast.
The American Shad was taken from NY's Hudson River and also brought to Califonia. They too
have had no problems with competion with native species and are a good sport fish now on the
Left Coast.
Other fish on the otherhand are a BIG problem in the US For example the Jumping Carp and
the Snakefish.
Rodney
2005-07-22 03:05:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by nobody
Yeah, why does everyone misunderstand the point of the original post?
So many waters are so far gone that the only fish that can thrive in
them anymore are carp. Carp aren't causing the damage, they are
*surviving* the damage. Learn how to fish for them now, because before
you know it, they're gonna be all that's left.
Hell man I don't know where you live ,but around here the water quality
has improved a hundred fold in the last 35 years, we have creeks that
were totally lifeless 35 years ago teaming with all kinds of fish now ,
from bass to cats, I know of no waters within 100 miles of my
house,,well really, I personally no none in the whole state that will
only support carp
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Long Shot "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, Decoy Activator
and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com
James
2005-10-13 04:57:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob La Londe
Post by I.Epstein
That's some reading comprehension you got there.
Instead of reviling the carp, lets restore the waterways, and the native
populations.
(Yes I know bass aren't native to Arizona, but trout are.)
Nor are most trout. Only the Apache Trout is a native to Arizona.
greg
2005-10-13 19:44:05 UTC
Permalink
As I understand it, all the rainbow (save steelhead) and brown trout were
brought to this country.
The main native trout were Cuts and Brooks (I know, not really a trout) and
the sea run stuff.
Post by James
Post by Bob La Londe
Post by I.Epstein
That's some reading comprehension you got there.
Instead of reviling the carp, lets restore the waterways, and the native
populations.
(Yes I know bass aren't native to Arizona, but trout are.)
Nor are most trout. Only the Apache Trout is a native to Arizona.
Musashi
2005-10-14 02:08:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by greg
As I understand it, all the rainbow (save steelhead) and brown trout were
brought to this country.
The main native trout were Cuts and Brooks (I know, not really a trout) and
the sea run stuff.
Rainbows are native to the western United States.
Including the chars, Cutthroats, Dolly Varden, Lake, Brook trout are
all native to the United States. The Brown trout was introduced from Europe.

http://www.aps.uoguelph.ca/~aquacentre/aec/publications/TROUT.html
James
2005-10-14 07:11:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Musashi
Post by greg
As I understand it, all the rainbow (save steelhead) and brown trout were
brought to this country.
The main native trout were Cuts and Brooks (I know, not really a trout)
and
Post by greg
the sea run stuff.
Rainbows are native to the western United States.
Including the chars, Cutthroats, Dolly Varden, Lake, Brook trout are
all native to the United States. The Brown trout was introduced from Europe.
http://www.aps.uoguelph.ca/~aquacentre/aec/publications/TROUT.html
The Rainbow Trout was introduced in Arizona in 1898.

http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/fish_rainbow_trout.shtml
Musashi
2005-10-14 18:35:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Musashi
Post by Musashi
Post by greg
As I understand it, all the rainbow (save steelhead) and brown trout
were
Post by Musashi
Post by greg
brought to this country.
The main native trout were Cuts and Brooks (I know, not really a trout)
and
Post by greg
the sea run stuff.
Rainbows are native to the western United States.
Including the chars, Cutthroats, Dolly Varden, Lake, Brook trout are
all native to the United States. The Brown trout was introduced from
Europe.
Post by Musashi
http://www.aps.uoguelph.ca/~aquacentre/aec/publications/TROUT.html
The Rainbow Trout was introduced in Arizona in 1898.
http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/fish_rainbow_trout.shtml
Rainbows are native to the UNITED STATES.
Specifically the northern west coast.
The first state that received a shipment for transplant was New York State
in 1874.
Arizona got theirs in 1898.
I was addressing the incorrect statement that "As I understand it, all the
rainbow (save steelhead) and brown trout
were brought to this country."
MR Ed
2006-02-15 06:10:31 UTC
Permalink
Just a few words on Carp
1 it's a fish that kids cab catch and have a lot of fun with
2 if you do want some fun try fishing them on a light fly rod,,,,,,
couple of short tugs on the fish and they will jump
the bugle bass are not the villians
peace
Post by greg
Post by Musashi
Post by Musashi
Post by greg
As I understand it, all the rainbow (save steelhead) and brown trout
were
Post by Musashi
Post by greg
brought to this country.
The main native trout were Cuts and Brooks (I know, not really a
trout)
Post by Musashi
Post by Musashi
and
Post by greg
the sea run stuff.
Rainbows are native to the western United States.
Including the chars, Cutthroats, Dolly Varden, Lake, Brook trout are
all native to the United States. The Brown trout was introduced from
Europe.
Post by Musashi
http://www.aps.uoguelph.ca/~aquacentre/aec/publications/TROUT.html
The Rainbow Trout was introduced in Arizona in 1898.
http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/fish_rainbow_trout.shtml
Rainbows are native to the UNITED STATES.
Specifically the northern west coast.
The first state that received a shipment for transplant was New York State
in 1874.
Arizona got theirs in 1898.
I was addressing the incorrect statement that "As I understand it, all the
rainbow (save steelhead) and brown trout
were brought to this country."
Rodney Long
2006-02-15 15:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by MR Ed
Just a few words on Carp
1 it's a fish that kids cab catch and have a lot of fun with
2 if you do want some fun try fishing them on a light fly rod,,,,,,
couple of short tugs on the fish and they will jump
the bugle bass are not the villians
They are indeed the villains, they will rapidly become 80, or more
percent of the total fish weight in a body of water, never throw one
alive, back into the water, it is our only way to try to control their
numbers, if they survive only 6 months, they are too large for perdation
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com
Fredrick
2006-02-15 18:44:02 UTC
Permalink
What we need is a marketing effort to make Carp Fishing more attractive.
Yea, the Brits kill me with their Carp Fishing but they have the right idea.
Also come up with away to use all that Carp. Don't tell me that we have no
hungry
people left in this country.
Post by Rodney Long
Post by MR Ed
Just a few words on Carp
1 it's a fish that kids cab catch and have a lot of fun with
2 if you do want some fun try fishing them on a light fly rod,,,,,,
couple of short tugs on the fish and they will jump
the bugle bass are not the villians
They are indeed the villains, they will rapidly become 80, or more
percent of the total fish weight in a body of water, never throw one
alive, back into the water, it is our only way to try to control their
numbers, if they survive only 6 months, they are too large for perdation
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com
Rodney Long
2006-02-16 01:14:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredrick
What we need is a marketing effort to make Carp Fishing more attractive.
Yea, the Brits kill me with their Carp Fishing but they have the right idea.
Also come up with away to use all that Carp.
The Brits have no native large fish left, you want a fight,, all you
have is the imported carp, as they dominated all their water ways, since
their introduction,, no we should not accept carp,, we should spend to
time to generate a means of eradicating them, if they become a popular
game fish then they won't,, then in another hundred years, the only big
fish we will have will be carp, personally I like big cat fish and strip
much better than carp.

Have you ever ate carp ? I have,, sorry, but I put it at the bottom of
the list according to taste,, so do most americans,, it's nearly unheard
of in stores down south,, maybe up north they sell them, but down here
they are harvested for cat food, and the price is less than a dollar a
pound, (if you can find someone to buy them) hardly worth fishing for
commercially

They do have a few carp "shooting" contest up on the Tennessee river,
these guys take bows, and shoot them, it now takes a bow shooter two
flat bottom boats completely full, and almost sinking, to get even in
the running (they tow another boat behind the shooting boat and fill
them both up), I've heard some of these one day turnies kill a couple
hundred tons of carp, and don't even dent the population in Gunterville
lake. I think that now carp are over 50% of that lake's total fish weight




Don't tell me that we have no
Post by Fredrick
hungry
people left in this country.
Post by Rodney Long
Post by MR Ed
Just a few words on Carp
1 it's a fish that kids cab catch and have a lot of fun with
2 if you do want some fun try fishing them on a light fly rod,,,,,,
couple of short tugs on the fish and they will jump
the bugle bass are not the villians
They are indeed the villains, they will rapidly become 80, or more
percent of the total fish weight in a body of water, never throw one
alive, back into the water, it is our only way to try to control their
numbers, if they survive only 6 months, they are too large for perdation
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com
Rodney Long
2006-02-16 04:02:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rodney Long
They do have a few carp "shooting" contest up on the Tennessee river,
these guys take bows, and shoot them, it now takes a bow shooter two
flat bottom boats completely full, and almost sinking, to get even in
the running (they tow another boat behind the shooting boat and fill
them both up), I've heard some of these one day turnies kill a couple
hundred tons of carp, and don't even dent the population in Gunterville
lake. I think that now carp are over 50% of that lake's total fish weight
I just found out that they have changed the rules of those tournaments,,
they got where they could not unload the tons of carp (cats must have
got smart),, now they shoot all they can, but only bring in 5 fish to be
weighed, (the rest fertilizes the lake I guess), and the top weight of
the five fish is judged
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com
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